Tuesday its immigration there's a stalemate at this point in time but at least -- champs of something getting done. And then I'm thrilled we're gonna talk to Steve and Ron pollution through his. President -- -- -- Clara restrict search groupies pollster. Government think tank. And we're and I asked them is gridlock. A good thing. Because we've got improving real estate market through an improving economy is stock market going through the -- And congress is gridlocked and barely get a thing done though the question is are we better without them. This hour we'll talk about immigration illegal immigration. Legal immigration amnesty. And Libya. Started the -- we've got an author of Britain -- -- fascinating book it's called global crossings. Immigration civilization. And America and the author is a borrow. Of organs yourself. And his senior fellow with the independent institute and author of global Christians. Alvaro welcomed the show I appreciate calling it. And both -- we get into the usual debate about immigration itself. Couple nights ago when I was reading your book of the the prologue and a ton of -- -- -- -- -- a companion. -- secret trio and Mexico's. Senora desert. Tell people what to read their report and about the helicopter. That suddenly appears in your back. Well the other it was a -- very unexpected encounter. I wanted to not only look at this from an academic point of view of course there's a lot of research a lot of that and I'm the kind of thing that you need. To to use in order to to build an argument but I also wanted this to be real and too. Take a look at what the situation is actually on the border -- IE traveled. The -- larger chunk of the border and I wanted to see somebody entry points that. You know -- investing. Entry points into the United States and how the assistant was operating. Right now. And in one of those places that was 88 to sort of secret I guess so semi secret trailed. Mean. Yeah that's how old are -- goes into. It's also called altar on the other side of the on the side of of the of the US. It's a very very tiny town on the I would say. No more than a couple thousand people. The very most many of whom of course are are just immigrants waiting to get it. So permanent residences there I mean is just kind. And that leads into Arizona. A place called also called -- for all the ultra -- And it's so very very. I was sort of of rhetoric remote kind of unknown. And people had very few people use. There's illegal. Of course checkpoint there that. Just a few. I guess hundred. Yards meters from there. If there's a kind of a best -- an entry point that the people are using or at least were using when I was there. So what I what I wanted to do is -- is you know what as as opposed to the to the border as possible to the actual entry point as possible. And just see how that system work and then when I was on my way there. -- helicopter. President suddenly. Suddenly landed. Just in front of my car. Your yacht but it was beyond. -- it looked like an African army helicopter. But it wasn't they the of about two five or six people came out. And David they were very heavily armed and a that he immediately ask me. Who wasn't what I was doing there I realized immediately they would not army people. They were with one of the narco trafficking you know of operations there. And eventually they let me go because of one of the priests who takes care of the immigrants on the Mexican side of the border in Alter our. Who is. Kind of at least tolerated by the narco traffickers. Called and let them know who wants to explain to them but I was most. Those over drug drug cartel were monitoring that child is born today by -- -- -- are they. -- all -- Let -- take a break here want to come back let's get into. Some of the debate so many of -- heard over and over you've got some very. Introducing takes on all of the controversies. We're going to be thinking a lot of to illegal immigration. Immigration amnesty won't talk to us congressman we're gonna talk to. Political polls were right now we have eighty. Author of her brother extraordinary book called Global Crossing its immigration civilization and America -- borrowed Vargas Llosa. Senior fellow with the independent institute and of course the author of this book a -- say in your. Chapter twelve what immigrants do jobs wages in the economy -- say. The number of 800 workers available for low skilled entry level jobs have declined sharply in the last few decades because. -- birth rate. -- high level of education and the job best reason to people. Who used to perform these jobs such -- chicanos and blocks low skilled immigrant. Are filling a gap rather than forcing America's economy. To take them. What what curable what do you base that on could look at -- mentally. Others think tank all on claiming that's not true and they're taking jobs where it. Well this -- great debate but also really great to. -- and one that of course times of a distress or times of recession. As has been the case in the last few years. The debate becomes almost. Conventional wisdom but all the evidence we -- that in every economic cycle going back decades. What we saw was essentially is basically we. So an economy that's constantly moving and evolving it's not a given it's not static and therefore. What happens is that when. Immigrants coming coming in and takes some of those jobs. -- -- population immediately moves up the that the economic scale. And so -- do have a very tiny impact on wages are the very low end of the scale. But that's more than offset by the wages that people learn -- once they start moving up and I'm talking about making it would then begin to take up. The better positions. In terms of employment. What we see is that immigrants. Because of the division of labor of course and specialize patient. Allow for the economy to grow. To the extent that. That has been the case we have seen an impact. Every year on average of about 36 billion dollars. That's illegal immigration and our calculation is that is it that illegal immigration. I came out of the shadows of the worst became legal. The impact would be on average about a hundred billion dollars a year so about one trillion dollars a year -- terms of adding to GDP to -- economy. Other things done. Kato the -- to Cato. Institute. Talked about one point five trillion. Center for American Progress on the left talks about 900 billion dollars so we're also that's. Generally in agreement of both -- -- left and right to in terms of the impact it has on the economy and once. You take into account. Unemployment rates and immigration rates as it -- you you see that immigration does not have that effect. On on unemployment Prius is just 11. The case and I think is a very interest illustration of this in Arizona. In 2007 just before. The bubble burst. You had 4%. Unemployment. And yet 10% of the workforce was was immigrant. So clearly that it is because we're not having that effect on on the employment in in Arizona at the time. Every day we were then polled about -- there was subject were primarily talking about it. Did they have their predator John -- governor of the opinion poll last -- -- -- to illegal immigration. Given the choice of stronger border security a more flexible immigration system by far and none of -- close to 50%. Who think stronger border security as he entered. In your book you talk about unequal borders or monuments Saudi Arabia yemen's South Africa Mozambique Thailand Myanmar Botswana Zambia. Is relieved as Spain Morocco is through Jordan Russian -- -- Albany new United States and Mexico and you say. Government's place much effort to block those -- precisely. Because the governments are aware of how closely migration flows or connected -- to imbalances. Between countries. Is that an argument for a stronger border security. Well it's it's an argument for essentially. Alone don't belong to shadow. Reality to do to make it better connection between the law regarding what tends to happen. Not just with immigration but with any sort of of of of circumstance or situation including at the trade in goods and services is that once. The law is becomes disconnected from reality. A black market emerges and and this is also true of of of immigration so. If you want secure borders. -- followed by the way of doing it is to establish a system that's flexible and also that. All the people that the economy demand. Are able to come in within the framework of of little otherwise what tends to happen that you create incentives -- Four illegal immigration. The only way to stop that I guess if you take the other view is essentially to seal off. The borders. It's unrealistic I think at this point to think that is even possible but the work I mean clearly. The cost for the United States who will be great I mean that would be that would be tantamount to simply isolating yourself entirely from from from the rest of the world I don't I don't think anybody. Including critics of immigration -- that so. A better way to do that I think is it simply to learn from reality and and and you know look at those periods and in US history went. There has been very little illegal immigration and those repairs in which. The system was flexible enough to allow. The people that the economy demand it and and then those people operated within the system of course. That would definitely mean that you will have a immigrants and and so -- if somebody has. The problem with immigration just person say that that clearly does not going to be a solution for that but I would posit that in this day and -- -- and it's just not realistic to think that the economy. Can do without immigration coming DP if you did you would have. Very high cost high wages or that would translate into. -- lower standard of living ultimately. Take a step forward from your doctor is skewed question and curious about -- aware of you know what they're earning suspense file is is Social Security. All right just this forward for some reason most people don't know about -- California all across the country the average fake ID or illegal immigrants to get so those dirty number. Bring cord. Big driver's licenses 150 dollars is the average. In the 81980s. Social Security receives a blog at W tour earnings from. Employers. That hired people that that says get out of Social Security number. Base and all their money in today. That while. -- 952. Point four billion. Dollars. And that's not even adjusted for inflation. Without it. So secure and even Medicare would be in big trouble. Because this almost a trillion dollars the result fifty billion dollars a year. And without -- so security is gonna go broke or what quarter. What happens if we use give amnesty to twelve million plus. Immigrants. And they get all that money. Isn't I don't know argument that we would have Social Security threat -- Well that that very different question. By all calculations and this includes government. A year you know many people do of course -- social security and and and so on so forth. If you legalize. Eleven point five million people. There will be two or three different consequences. One of them of course will be that you will add to the economy. I was saying different think accepted -- different calculations but pretty much. They all revolve around the trillion dollar figure for -- in one decade so if you're talking about. -- the next four or five decades. They're taking into account the lead a life expectancy help those immigrants were mostly young. You're talking about. A few trillion dollars. Addition to GDP to the economy. So that's one I think there needs to be taken into account another one is that. Some of that cost in terms of the fiscal cost of immigration. Takes does not take into account the fact that more than half of immigrant children have at least one parent who is a citizen. So when those calculations are made. They neglected to take that into account and they've had a -- we take that into account that we we all the of course lower. But number. Quite significantly. And ultimately the -- and into the final consequence. Of course you would. Whole -- You know load up. Young people contributing to Social Security the way. That Denard able to. Are right now this. The calculation that some people have made is that. Between that nineteenth from the 1970s. To the 1990s. This fiscal a contribution by immigrants was about 25 billion dollar dollars over the cost and that's what -- about the eagle immigration so if you brought. So where where I apologize we're running out of time sure I appreciate you calling him very much for people that Joseph showing who's. We're talking about drew huge book Global Crossing immigration solution and miracle we've got leaked to wooden double a deal dot com. On my web page and it you have -- people one your website or how to get to book out of the go about it. Yeah out of focus everywhere bookstores. Amazon and also www. Independent dot org which is our web site. Thank you so much time. Thank you for having me you don't.