815 Tommy Tucker glad you -- on this Thursday morning and just be aware that the temperatures to be following the forties. But this afternoon skies should clear and without any. Radiation heating has to be cold tonight -- 33 in the south short 28. On the north York. And notices that. Hole it happened when I was on vacation Pew Research Center finding that 13. Of Americans which is a sizable amount of people don't believe in evolution and believe in creationism. I'm ready jaguar opinion poll highly unscientific is asking you do believe in evolution -- creationism. And if you've ever been in college or high school even postgraduate school in and read a textbook. And wondered what -- world writes these things go about writing a -- gentlemen joins us right now it's not only written successful books but it textbook that was. Question in the state of Texas second most populous US state. And what Texas decides do except apparently has a lot to do with what schools nationwide do. So we're gonna welcoming Ken Miller right now friend of ours been on before morning ten or good thanks for joining us and happy new year. Peter you and -- thank you tell me about. I guess the flat in Texas and textbook that you helped co author. Well I'm not the cola current book with a catchy title to -- biology. It's biology by Miller and with -- it's published by Pearson education. It's a high school -- its intended for ninth or tenth grade courses in general biology. And job and I -- brought out of first -- of this book go way back in 1991. In the end he's used in all fifty states and quite a few foreign countries. It is incidentally the most widely used high school biology textbooks in -- Your listing area as well. Texas. Is. That's similar to many of the states in the south. In that for years. The state Department of Education has actually provided the money to purchase textbooks. For local school districts and what that means. Since the state is providing. Is that the elected state board of education. Has a big role in the process of approving. The list of books from which local school districts get to choose. We've been successful in Texas every time typical signs adoption. And as it turns out this year was no exception. However. During the review process not a single person. On the committee that reviewed our book. Said that our books had -- I think it was twenty or so errors and public were errors in quotation marks are about evolution. And most of these errors -- The notion of our book that evolution was in fact the best scientific explanation that we have. For the history of diversity of life on -- Well the state board of education decided. Not to relieve rule on whether this particular gentleman -- an engineer by training by way out of college. Whether it was right or not. And they decided to ask three real while just three genuine experts I think they were from. Southern Methodist University University of Texas university Kentucky. To take a look at our book and he's -- -- they're and they're sort which came in very quickly was absolutely positively. So at this point despite that will perform for book is approved and basically every district of Texas is now going to pitch it. Which book they'd like to have been we operate much that many of the Baltic course. I want a wanna move on when we come back acted today evolution and creationism and some people may believe what they believe and maybe don't really understand the facts behind it and it goes both sides and you wrote a book. Finding dollar wins guy that I wanna get into but again I ask you real quick on a side note. Because I've always wondered is how how you write -- textbook but it seems like. Some of the material and that being facetious -- some of it's been published before but. -- you'd go about explaining biologists in my -- it a different take on how you make something different I guess and and books that exist already have always wondered about that. What the -- that question and the first thing you should know it is my background in the back randomly call offered an -- big. My old field is something called cell biology and work with -- obviously the electron microscope schools like that. But for years all the ultimate dead at brown which is more than thirty years I have taught freshman entry level general biology sort of from soup to nuts. So I have a background in teaching the whole of biology. To my students at my university corporate -- within. Used to teach at Boston College -- currently he's been involved in projects for WGBH television which produces the science series nova. He's worked for the Discovery Channel he's got a number of other educational interest Ochoa also been involved. In ways to try to explain the biological science does to people. So let's take for example. That the organization of the living itself which is which is -- researcher. I could do we could do what every other textbook doesn't just say well so as a nucleus -- -- -- -- the pleasant. It has this -- that it works this way it looks like that and so forth. -- I like to make these things come alive. So I try to do and in our textbook and this is one of the things that makes it's so popular. Is I try to compare the -- to factory. And imagine the large factory with these specialized areas. With machines over -- making something. With a comedians -- with factory managers say it's with a little power plant to provide energy with walls surrounded keep it safe from the weather outside. With the shipping and receiving area and so -- Everybody can understand. But it turns out you can then go get the microscopic cells inside the living -- You can see all these processes taking place in there as well so I try to do. To try to stories to tell them ways to explain the science to students that will. Relate to. And also the will turn -- -- this the last thing. I'll mention. And that is the cool thing about the biological sciences is that they are always changing series always new science to -- into the textbook narrative. And that's one of the things that I think makes it exciting to be involved in trying to explain this to young people. I'm glad you cleared that up is always under the impression that the living cell was where you went after you know holding cell. Thanks for clearing that up doctor 822 more it would get serious about creationism. And -- evolution when we come back we'll take you calls as well 260187. He told -- 86 exit 890878. Kenneth Miller our guest the professor at Brown University. A 22 time -- -- I Tommy Tucker talking about a new pew research poll that showed a third of America does not believe in evolution they believe in. Creationism -- gases is a doctor Miller. But I have although one other news. But retired registered nurse -- somebody call you doctor in front of her she's she grabbed their arms that is not. -- is that there. Appears to vial. So you have a Ph.D. able to apply now but I don't but I don't -- percent on their years -- an Ivy League school at -- mother has presently know it's an area where I would rather. See a lot. That's hilarious anyway would talk about creationism in an evolution and and he's got a book out funding to our wins god that's. A very intriguing in and of itself and -- in some great questions via text and we'll get to those after the new -- also call in -- -- 60187. He told freak. 866889087. But if you could doctor Miller in the in the he had two minutes that we have here before news. Give me the brief rundown on what. Creation is believe in what evolution is believe and in terms of I guess how long man has been on the planet and what the proof of that is. Well if -- if -- sister creation as I usually take that to the theory young -- -- -- meeting. They think he is about six to 101000 your salt. And all living things including the human -- have been on the earth since creation week. In pretty much their present -- And I think that's what you know that's what most people even western societies believe. Up to about Big Three hundred years ago. And did during that period talk about 300 years ago the signs of geology. First came about it became apparent that life had changed over time change dramatically. That this was well appreciated -- before Charles Darwin was even board. -- evolution is -- explanation for that change. So yes we want to evolution -- -- what I would that the way it reflects is to say the scientific community. Or more than 250 years has accumulated enormous about it to show that the earth. Is the Orioles. About four billion years old. But life has existed on the Europe during most of that time. And that the -- of the past which is very different from the -- for the president and finally that we can find. The explanations for the origin and diversity of living things that we see today by looking backward in time. And finding the process of what Darwin himself called. Descent with modification. Which is what most of the -- evolution. Boy he should -- a textbook way to explain that. Oh wait you already did didn't it. I appreciate your time to take a break for news and come back we'll take calls and and answer these text questions are ready jaguar opinion poll asking you. When you believe in creation -- evolution 68% same creationism 32% saying evolution. And a big difference in terms of how old -- as 6000. Years of warning half billion years. Right now time for -- WL first news for that we -- stated I Tommy Tucker talking about this pew research poll was conducted. Over the holidays in December that. Showed a third of Americans. Discount evolution and they believe in creationism in our guest actor Ken Miller is a professor of biology at Brown University. He also wrote a book called finding Darwin's god that we're gonna. Get too we also wrote a textbook that was delayed in the state of Texas which has a lot to do with what books are used in other states. Because. They said the book contains some factual errors. And the only factual errors again put that in quotation marks was that evolution is what it said was the best explanation for how the world. Came about wouldn't take calls at -- six 187 he toll free 866889087. If you are a devout. Creation list. And and you think there are problems with the theory of evolution are there is evidence that. Disputes that theory we would love to hear front Munich is doctor Miller's a -- talked to not meet. -- doctor -- when you. When he said before the break that there was vast scientific evidence that showed the the earth was born half billion years about not to the month after the date -- I became -- guest known as starting 300 years ago and geology came about. What what what are some of that evidence what are some of the things that prove. And again we don't make this competition because it's about faith but that kinda make the creationism. In the theory that the world 6000 years old. The invalid. Well there's there's that whole series thanks. When the size of geology began to develop which is in the late seventeen hundreds. It became apparent that the geological formations the types of blocks the sedimentary layers. Which you can find in there it is in your -- in -- certain sequence and we don't have a whole sequence everywhere because. You only get segmentation leader of the water. But you could compare the different geological -- which quite characteristically Europe could compare them with. Similar ages in North America South America other places. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Scientists. In the late seventies the early leaders began to suspect. That the hurt the personally really you couldn't account. For all these bicycle world -- slide. And in fact a slow and gradual process was more likely than what people appeared to catch was that the year when the millions of yours all. Lord help and it was agreed classical physicist in Great Britain. Made some things calculations based on the temperature. Of the crust at the earth facility has started a pretty -- and head colds that. And he suggested the -- might be oh million couple million years old. But did into the eighteenth century. There was -- scientific breakthrough that was the discovery of -- you'll activity. And almost immediately people realize that which -- activity. You could actually help if the earth have been okay. Five healthy years ago 101000 years ago 400 million acres and low ball -- -- -- metric measurements began to be. Astonishingly. Not only if you're not six to 101000 years old but he turned out to be many billions of useful and we have a series of different. Regular metric message and made this point they all converge. On the state of about four and have it your sense and I would like to emphasize the whole. The whole idea of evolution. Which was developed in the eighteen hundreds -- Darwin -- Wallace. Was in doubt would radioactivity was discovered about forty years. And if you're really wants to evolution to have taken place the -- would have would have been able to tell us. But it turns out -- told something exactly the opposite which is the earth -- even older than people like Charles -- would appear to match. You know sometimes religion and science can make strange bedfellows if you don't believe me ask a whole deal but. Yeah -- Catholic I think he taught me believe that in high school I remember correctly that it's OKs along if you believe that god created the big bang and and that's just my religious beliefs that doesn't mean somebody else right or wrong -- -- -- and -- Well let me chime in on that because. Because I'm I'm Roman Catholic as well. -- and three -- Pius the twelfth. John Paul the second. And the Benedict the sixteenth. Have written in some detail on evolution. Saying that if this is what something else that we have to accept that and there is no necessary conflict. Between the theory of evolution and Christian religious beliefs. Does that basically do what your book talks about in finding -- wins god. It talks about a lot more than -- in the first two thirds of the book. Our discussion that the evidence for evolution how we know that the earth is not that and how we go. The animals and planes have changed over time and how we know that. That the human beings we were not always on this that we are actually recent appearances as a species. In the last couple chapters of that. I try to give my contact. On how person that can understand evolution -- in the context of police and and the subtitles bought by the on the cover is. So it's the search for common ground between god and evolution. And let's suffice to say I think -- -- When it comes stated that missing link in the gonna get a text here a couple of matters and millions of discovery's dating back billions of years they. So cannot find it darn missing links I don't know if that's supposed do. -- for some -- of it's accurate and secondly on an off that supposed to mean that there was a big bang and all of a sudden demand appeared on here at 6000 years I don't know tell me. Uh oh what would it would is that it is of research -- here. You know what -- Nothing missing link. Between spots and our primary non human ancestors. It out -- it's outdated by up about 45 -- fifty years. And the truth is we made so many discoveries. In humans -- Leo anthropology in the last couple decades. That we now are faced with somebody's fossil Peter -- and there were so many missing links. That show clearly. That we were proceed on this planet. On the by non human primate ancestors. Is that that is actually becomes confusing. So not only do we have the missing link but we have so many thing likes. But it becomes hard to tell. Which ones work or direct ancestors and which ones work our closest which when were those -- relatives living now mistakes and which -- led directly to us. You tell about my early days now when you say crazy relatives living out mistakes are you still -- evolution. Well after holding it does get fuel while we spent a lot of time with -- leave it -- like that we've -- Like many people I'm happy to get ready to stop the celebrating. -- confused me would you say crazy relatives of the sticks doctor I appreciate your time literally do and you are Slater at Brown University -- come on again. Oh thank you thank you -- happy -- appeared.