Yup we're Dorian -- short the Middle East one. Certainly you can -- talk trivia experts try to Pigram scored -- But more particularly soon debris -- a little bit different tact because for me. If it brings a question that I don't see anywhere in the media or or within the professionals. That Anderson in the Middle East. A breeder couple paragraphs and two different to news reports of a pound over the last week this pizza. Just war games and -- Now lost. Threaten. A nation once seen as a -- hope in the middle uses unraveling. At -- Qaeda. Since its T didn't and a bloated americorps wonders. What could have been. A reminder troops departed December 2011. When they've -- Everything our -- said Dave -- -- defeated al-Qaeda. Andy and there have sued news in the Shiites who have been rivals for. Hundreds of years for sure in -- or hear him in the world's only Arab democracy. And now that's a card receives major cities where hundreds. Of viewers troops -- bought by -- thousands were injured. And this is the second story talks about a 21 year old sergeant squad leader in the Marine Corps. During the 2004 invasion of Fallujah. Seven of the seventy mariners -- wounded or -- Big part Sunni insurgents some of them with a allegiance to al-Qaeda. Those same insurgents are now raising their flag. Over pollution. And he says it was friendships. Disbelieving and Paul. -- texted a couple friends who's now firefighter registered owners from Pennsylvania. Every one was angry and in disbelief. You should I don't think anyone had the great delusion that -- your Romani. Was gonna turn into definitely a burden on -- Daughter who's gonna go back to what I was before it makes me and my fellow soldiers. Sick tomorrow so I have that the rules and Europe face every thing we -- -- so blatantly. Taken board. And then he goes on and on. What is your drug called doctor Graham -- adjunct scholar of Middle East Institute doctor welcomed the show. My little bit different question when when we looked in particular ever brought. And we look of what's happening and Afghanistan. It's been a relatively short period of time trillion dollars worth of treasure. I think it's 4000 plus dead. Thousands injured coming out of those two wars. And now we have troops that are not 102030. Years from boom. Like Vietnam. This is yesterday. That they did this fighting and quote created -- person -- proceed in the Arab world. And now it's all for naught. Or what does this do tool I'll war. Future in this country -- week. Like wars shall we can do crude people who light boards and what does it do to the sit -- -- action in the Middle East that's a lot of questions that apply in this very computes. If it's it's it's truly one of the tragedies have it in making foreign policy is particularly Whitney Houston Doug Americans doubt the plate. Indictment in this struggle that. Have many factors that we cannot control and I think this is the threw the case here it's like we won every battle in Vietnam lost the war. I think to this day we are still divided as a country or whether it was a good idea or bad idea. To go into Iraq and to remove Saddam Hussein I think the majority of people thought it was a good idea we have been changed the world but what we did as we change the rock. And -- and divided the population of Iraq in two. Actions they're fighting each other to this day. And and wouldn't. -- -- it -- Vietnam Guillen. It was users. I would submit was at least a decade I was warn them that made that trip and can act. And important initial Leo this is horrible -- -- and -- goal and then those that believe we should never garnering the majority that took a long time. This is this is kinda in the real cool time. -- I think. It was pretty clear. Soon after the war was that the fighting was over. That the tide has turned very differently than we ever anticipated in our losses of human life we're certainly going to be not what -- -- that it didn't it. Productivity at the embassy itself and Saigon which is the spring of 197519. That he thought was that -- after the we're fighting very heavily in the early seventies. Well OK but but blue blue lips go back to today. Everything I'm reading that more conscience of every four different reports or read said. You know we got to think the number was. We're gonna run 3040000. Troops still in Japan and -- -- -- -- got. Think the numbers fifty something thousand in Germany got over 101000 in South Korea. And those. -- routes have prospered. And and haven't imploded. And and those people who point out those numbers say will show that kept the contingent there -- sure the statement Al-Maliki. Didn't want that didn't. They've done the Iraqis that was the one thing I believe we could have united the Iraqis on the problems possible exception of the Kurds in the north where -- -- state they want that helped. The the problem is with the Iraqi society today. Majority of Iraqis are Shia Arabs. And they -- in any democracy you bring to Iraq they're going to dominate. The minority who used to balance of the Sunni Arabs they say they are being pressed into a quarter given less. It was -- yet there's natural resistance and you put that an entire regional war that is going on between Sunnis and she is. It is our -- all out of control it yes. It is -- yet understand is much that we had trouble with Iraq the last year 2013 we saw the most depth. Terrorist -- through car bombs and other sort of terrorist acts in Iraq we've seen five years you rockets going through it very difficult on. -- a couple of paragraphs. -- turned up in excess. If all kind of reassert control of that and more Anbar Province. It would have abortion depending depicting the great Satan. While establishing even. From which to make more trouble pouring fighters into Syria. Threatening the borders of Lebanon and Gordon. Linking up with the insurgents in the Arab -- and they consider friendly to the United States. And your cell was like Israel Saudi Arabia could be quickly engulfed in and expanding. Conflict. Many analysts say raising the possibility and get this. Of a major war in the beliefs. Of untold death. Global oil shocks and eventually US military into venture. Now we know enough about the media this morning including yes review talked shoes that they usually. Conservative -- liberal bent or. Just exaggerated and scream about it to get too loose and real watch. So well -- -- -- experts should try to get better handle on -- about the uses hyperbole viewers there were real concern here. Doctor Graham betterment which again is with a drunk scholar of Middle East Institute. Doctor is that an exaggeration. It's certainly a possibility. Of things could be we are going we're entering a period. Typical prime -- war on the Middle East where America's interest are going to be greatly impacted by what goes on about their the question is so. What would American intervention be like and what we do to prevent things from happening I think the problem goes back to when we went into Iraq. I mean I had lunch last week with of Steve Hadley who was either deputy have to security advisor to present what for the national security advisor. He is adamant in his belief -- yet understand this is a man who's. Diligent. Moderate and bought. That -- he believes what they did was absolutely right and as the current administration has failed Apollo Group. I would hate to disagree with Steve but I do I I think. Problem was the policy was flawed and no matter what we did our long restate. Five years after we were a -- there are influence would be -- And our ability to change the situation would be minimal and I think that's what we are today we can influence we can have certain. In fact we cannot control the situation. And we probably are better at -- Again looking back to beer and I'm totally form wrong but believed that this country. Disorderly. Said no moths were not doing that again and that held until 9/11. We get a little unofficial and scientific governor bureau predator drug more opinion poll should we send troops back to rock. 81 person and people trio of saloon in national polls in -- or or skewed totally -- not going back in. But what I read the -- of blue -- of a major war in the -- pleased -- -- untold -- global -- -- and eventually. US military intervention. And you say you ripped apart and worry. To make sure that doesn't happen. What what are the ways to make sure that doesn't happen I mean. Well we -- we couldn't we can turn and a Al-Maliki. And state court misreading the -- his but he says wait a minute that was Saddam Hussein's group. I can't be trusted. And that's will try to come from there -- -- and and they're the ones that car bombs went off all over Iraq so what do you mean we're mistreating other terrorist we're addressing the issue. The problem for the United States is if you take the issue to give you some idea that the mutual pollution. -- government. Many just to reassert its control over Fallujah it would be seen as a victory of this year it's the allies so we weren't. Over the Sunni. And -- it out either -- people -- it is. It has been able to stay there in Fallujah it will be a victory of al-Qaeda over the cheers and therefore either way. The people who would like least we'll have -- victory. The way they're working it is probably as good as they could do you want to get them to. Normal citizens the tribal groups in that area to reassert control. The government the rockets said that is what they're going to do we're actively with the Iraqi Army and we'll let the tribal leaders. That's the best possible solution United States can support those efforts and we should be supporting those efforts but that does not mean Americans get to direct. Directly involved. Do we still given intelligence and military -- He that the military aid and intelligence and can we get active all your intelligence produce some immigrants so. And you're sure I'm not giving your all the military equipment you're giving some. This is sort of the car that you get to have at least a conversation and in the game so they listened to you. Now I think that probably heard by. Not necessarily but at least you'll have an ability to -- to be telling them what you think is right and it will pay attention because -- the United States. A little limp back to the bill as soon to do in the possibility of -- -- -- -- -- -- -- global talks. And eventually US military intervention did you see in these scenario. Where were able to go back Kenya that military men that are still in the military looking at what's occurred and say. This kind of big and they're they're gonna send me back in and got the American public that say not nobody helmet. There I think I think there are I agree and I think the American public is correct. In the natural inclination -- they not know but elbow. Differences. If you have it will define. What America's interest are the differences between the first George Bush who -- who drove the Iraqis out of Kuwait. And the pressure was on the go on the Iraqis get rid of Saddam Hussein who don't know. We're not into regime change we're not and to try to transform these people reset our objective was to get. Iraq is out of Kuwait and we did that he was criticized but he. He got out of the area and everybody in -- success in the United States prestige of -- was the highest this decade that -- We went into Iraq to change the regime and think we're gonna transform Iraqi society and use the American military. For Asian development that area we fail. Because we're not gonna change those people. Over and -- were -- -- -- time that the Americans occupied. That's why that's why don't we would who doomed to be at this moment today. Where -- -- saying what was the -- war because our objectives was growing and impossible to reach. And go whether kind of silly little questions skill to -- hello -- obscurity in this situation. Rock specifically oracle Paul. When you work the whole as soon the issue of confidence. That right. Doctor. All wars it's huge benefit. Being able to talk to all war always appreciated time we have agreed to. -- we're gonna talk to. Political science is suing universal also an expert in the Middle East -- hold on with me will come beer called to. It's your veteran. Out there -- you just have an opinion and loses its stone you move that that those sacrifices. Our veterans went through. I think it's a report thousand dead. Thousands in Donaldson's. Lives. Totally changed because of brain trauma of physical trauma. And they're they're looking back in real time and and -- like they barely cleared the tarmac. In Fallujah. And a Anbar Province the Bay Area with a -- so many people. And end quote. Won their pipes. And settlers solely democracy covering an Arab country. And it's all go to war. And in real time -- quickly. What are your thoughts to -- 0187. Told -- six fixated none zero its revenue Deborah.