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WWL>Topics>>2-14-14 11:10am Don Dubuc: on the Nagin verdict

2-14-14 11:10am Don Dubuc: on the Nagin verdict

Feb 14, 2014|

Don Dubuc fills in for Garland and talks about the Nagin verdict with attorney Tim Meche.

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Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)

And on this beautiful Friday morning Valentine's Day it's down to be sitting in for Garland Robinette on Fridays to be back with you on Monday. Those of you who wanted to weigh in on the saint Tammany parish inspector general issue and also maybe talk about. The sentencing of the saint Tammany parish corn a former corner. Peter galvanized. -- parish presidents come and join us next -- Warren will revisit those are we had to. Split the topics but that was to accommodate a very busy schedule we think of -- making that adjustment at this hour. Ray -- trial and also leave the aftermath we're gonna talk with him as she's an attorney. And also a legal analyst we'll talk about the trial how did Robert Jenkins handle it when there's some things he could've done. Did you do the best he could with what he had to work with also the appeals process. Does he think Ray Nagin will spend jail time while his appeal is being processed -- remained. Free on bond while the appeals being processed also what about the possibility of the government going after his family. Maybe it was offered we don't know in a deal plea deal maybe part of the bargain was that they would stay off of them if they took it but not if he didn't. -- is that something that the government simply does not do what about restitution. Is money going to be paid back is that going to be part of the sentencing. In how many years is he likely to spend time in prisons a lot of things to talk about we invite you to do with us. In a couple of ways to 601 late seventies -- telephone line we haven't told pre numbered 866889087. And a -- one attacks as many of our listeners do we have a tech's green that comes directly to the studio it's instantaneous. No hold on wait just go to 87870. Please remember to text responsibly do that text and drive have a designated text on designated driver. In Russia got voice text that I am against that would be okay that's like talking on the phone which is illegals all. Anyway -- elected to. The dissipate in some form of fashion and introduced him matchup attorney and legal analyst. He's been all over the -- trial and joins us now to talk more about Tim thanks for taking the time discussed as well. The first of all elected to kind of go back to the trial in the manner in which is sobering Megan's attorney Robert Jenkins handle it. A while most people saying they've got a lot of respect for him he did a phenomenal job given the daunting task -- and the mountain of evidence. The resources of the of the federal government but. If I'm not mistaken I believe I've heard you say that that could've been some critical mistakes in emissions in the way the straw was him on behalf -- -- -- Yeah no it was just -- rather be the and the you know wanna do. Decided to start doing legal analyst fifteen years ago and so so what do you keep things -- -- would try to promote myself walk in to. How would also trees and a bottom line is this was just an incredibly. Incompetent lead defendants -- Percent of -- Ray Nagin. Now I don't blame Robert Robert is a friend of mine Robertson nice guy everybody likes Robert. Roberts affordable and more affable -- around the criminal defense profession. But the bottom line is Robert. For the most port doesn't true why. Cases in federal court I don't know that he's ever tried a federal criminal case in the eastern district of Louisiana to work. And it's just not in -- today. In. Just -- the case required. A bomb. Mayor Nagin to open up his checkbook in his wallet. Ian. Bring more resources to the table -- I don't blame Robert -- in as much as the blind mayor Nagin. For failing to present. Auburn's in my opinion a competent defense and they can do. I -- let me ask you this would like you explain the impact of which is saying when you do with -- resource is what is the ending result and I got a couple of ideas and tell me if I'm right or wrong. I didn't see any witnesses called to the stand that would have corroborated all of the people that Ray Nagin threw under the bus the woman and authorized credit card account of that on our. He had committees in people who make and decisions on given the bid while -- they called and then as -- he's exactly right he was just a signature win the ones and made to do. Where -- -- those people while they're not they all would have been too dangerous to bring them in because of their testimony. Dogged pulling not only did and called those types of people who would have quote core operate it Ray Nagin testimony. But they also didn't have any expert witnesses you know did the devastating evidence -- training with the government put on two expert witnesses. Of forensic accountant to win over his record and in our opinion he. Didn't pay taxes on X amount of money should pay taxes don't look. See any attorney could flying an expert to say that. Something calendar that. In any count that you could buy into account as. And they're taking them differently and they -- -- -- that -- -- call in the expert witnesses I mean basically all they did what they put rate may go on the stand. And frankly he wasn't well rehearsed he wasn't prepared. It appeared he bitten. Go through a -- Cross examination. Like you should usually do. Many times in a lot of cases take witnesses like that. And you have an expert to go through their testimony. On videotape been in the go through with them and they say this switch you to do better -- to me like he just to stand Lipton like he did in the chocolate city speech and just said today to accept. Yeah and not to say that that would have been a different outcome -- trial because of the evidence was overwhelming that was there. But as you say I think that was. I guess it was a result of lack of resources one trial was handled. In the men's fashion analyst Tim stay with a gonna take a break in we come back maybe go over some of the other things shortcomings that not having the economics to. To put in place what would that affect -- him in the trial also wanna talk about the appeals process. I'd would do you think Ray Nagin will go to prison while the appeal is taking place what are some of the grounds of one about techsters. Brought the very good points as did Robert Jenkins as part of his duty lay some ground work for a possible appeal undefeated. What would that be based talk with him match legal analyst right here on the big 870 WW. Welcome back into the think tank former. Mayor of new -- of -- make enough found guilty twentieth 21 counselor talked with him mashal legal analysts are now looking back at the trial all the jobs it. Defense attorney Robert Jenkins did -- looking forward to what the appeals process will bring -- ex mayor Nagin. And also some other questions and Tim. We we mentioned that did look like economic resource is kind of held back Jenkins from June maybe a more thorough job that he did we talked about -- -- call. Some corroborating witnesses what else might have been not been presented it could've been and he had the resources to do. It. Well. -- if you -- just resources I think frankly. I mean some of the cross examination. And I think some of the jurors are being interviewed have commented. Cross examination of the witness since we short. For instance Greg my effort to one of the store witnesses for the government testified against change and -- and he had a background we hear. Win all of this -- Emerge. Years ago. He was sued in civil court and he gave a deposition. And don't know why he doing anything illegal and improper. Home under -- He gave six hour deposition. He then went to a simple fall and testified. Under -- For about a date. And under -- denies doing anything improper -- -- or brighten her error. Conspiring with the major to do these things need legal. And home and subsequently with -- was told he's going to be indicted and his wife was going to be indicted any court. Any change is to India and later testified in the Kremlin control against. Mr. -- peer. And to his defense attorney in the suspects here kept molesting him for about a billion. Cross examining him about. His inconsistent statements that he had made under. And in this case. You know I think mr. Jenkins kept him on the stand and cross examination for about a half -- hour. And I'm told. You know you could -- a lot more with. So it's not just questioned the lack of resources. But also -- question of lack of effort and lack. Options using using you what you lawsuits and. So I mean. You know we see here. Ray Nagin you know and I'm no fear and Ray Nagin and I'm -- and and obviously a lot of people like him. -- stay out of politics. Purposely don't get involved in that kind of stuff for reasons. Brought. It pains me as a crippled since turning to see. Did he really did have some legitimate differences. And declined against him were all being made by some people with some real credibility problems mr. Medford for instance. Coup by his own emissions. Gained 800 some thousand powers. By Bryce being. Or by receiving bribes from mr. saint Pierre. -- He's free he's never spent days in jail he's living in Texas it's -- not indicted he may never -- Biggio. And from. Mr. -- bill. Two. Suppose so please swindles. Investors out of fourteen. Million. Our. Testified that interest Nagin and said that you know yes they had some kind of secret deal where he would tell -- -- after he got out of office. Even that for dale and Africa these things. Eat eat you know -- too if it wasn't. A great taste of the government. And I had Ray Nagin presented at a competent. Aggressive. Defeat it's. Perhaps. Things could -- in -- of resulted differently. Understood -- -- -- we got to go to traffic break we're going to be right back after this quick traffic update you're listening to the think tank on the VH seventy WW. Back with Tim mesh legal analyst and -- Tim assists and that trial portion suffice to say yeah you the full financial and also other reasons Robert Jenkins I had some tools. And his availability that he did not use for whatever reason -- kinda gets me into my next point of this topic. And asked the appeals processes one about text is wanted to know was running ground work late for appeals. I I see right off the bat three different may be grounds for appeal I don't think they're very solid. But then again you know you never know anyone would certainly be the issue of racial inequality on the jury the makeup of the jury that's always an argument. Number two -- it could be that we've here in reports that Robert Jenkins received death threats. Possibly to his own life and may be that of his family could that have all been going impacted affected his mental state. In that he maybe was not his competent and attorney and give him good representation is he could have been which kinda gets in the some of the things that you're asking why wasn't done. And the third one would be when that was -- -- rumors about blogging by. People in the US attorney's office that may have tainted the jury of the case and then against ray Megan so. Is there anything else did agency I mean and it looks like there's some reasons for appeals -- whether they'll hold water or not will have to say. No and that's well it all you have for the first and the racial makeup of the jury you know -- of getting anywhere because. Eat it is sort of and did that they shoot featured in art from certain parishes and in federal court -- basically you don't get a lot of African American. He should have had more on the jury I don't know why he did -- But sometimes and with what you end up with India would want. The second -- about Robert received in desperate to -- a comic he's the standout. Anything in his interview. I think you treated -- -- united and -- financial ship. He's been estimated that load may be the idea do as good as I could have. And who knows the resources or the lack of resources he was working with the and who knows what the -- judged changer bigger again very experienced trial judge he used to be a lawyer. And tried a lot of cases in fact I think probably work with yesterday in years ago. As a public defenders in Orleans parish criminal district court. Would what she'd note is still in -- she has -- good feeling that mr. Nagin didn't give inadequate defense. That would bother somebody like her I think. So. That may be be grass now. For an appeal. Although ineffective assistance of counsel is is a very. Difficult standard to meet the third thing you mentioned doll and a bell the blogging -- and there's rumors and discussion owned. Talk shows in the media about what may come out in -- you sure. That probably. Is best. To get the leave it in fact he could -- -- There's some suggestions that their world higher ups in the US attorneys involved in the making case. Involved in the decision making as to whether he should be indicted and would he should be insured with. Who were actively dialogue leniency and things perhaps. Racial. Things. Derogatory about him in this that emerges. That could be used as grounds for appeal but -- All seen anything in the trawl. They did jumped out at me and generally get an appeal the judgment and erroneous ruling based on emotion or something. And Robert didn't do option. -- uniter and a dad and you know I don't have any evidentiary objections and trawl debt were egregious enough in my opinion. Take costs you can appeal it would have to be some type of the blogging gate and just like we saw in the digging into a bridge case that would do it form. Understood Tim -- on time can they -- -- through the news. All right great we're talking with legal analyst Tim -- about the Ray Nagin verdicts will be right back to continue that after the news. And if you get a sinus attacks it's 87870. Downed -- filling in for Garland Robinette we're talking about the Ray Nagin verdict timid -- legal analyst and attorney is with us and Tim we we talked about the possibilities. Of appeal. -- -- Jim you there are so. Hooked it. A great -- demo we talked about the possibilities of appeal. And take us through the appeals process given your experience what you know about the judge on the standard is her decision. Is you know as far as whether he -- -- jail time while the appeals of being processed and I think that is. Determined by the strength of what she feels the appeals are. Do you think he move be sent to jail while these appeals are going on at least remain. Free while the appeals have taken place and how long does this whole process take in and does he have to open up the check book for this to mean how much will appeals. Cost is is you know probably not as expensive as the original trial itself when thing. Okay let me natural Scottish. Specifically here's how it works other descendants and day which I think it's set for some time in cheating. And do earn between now and then there's going to be a process where there's going to be a pre sentence investigation. That takes place where. The person who works. For the court. Called a probation all of the Serb but it's actually. -- since investigator. Compiled a report should be that person interviews mr. Nagin in his swing normally. And in abusive prosecutor. And -- -- evidence and doesn't determination using something we called the sentencing guidelines. To determine what decision that should be. Today and they do report to the -- and they make a recommendation. Of what decision it's should be. Does it depend has an opportunity to -- Yang and make -- recommendation -- wouldn't be here we are disagree and as well the prosecution. Good defense also has the opportunity to present letters to the court from members supporting mr. Nagin saying what the good guy he is. And any evidence in mitigation. In the court determined what they appropriate sentence should be and -- presumably on June 11 shoe print -- option for him. Can channel in federal court watch yourself and it's even though you have a wide to appeal. You go to jail. -- your appeal is pending on -- There is something called a significant. Legal issue which. Probably would result in your case be in over terms. And that's going usually won't. It happened in the Edwin Edwards case because they had that weird issue with the juror could get kicked -- picture that weird. We don't really see anything like that the mayor making case of the chances a war. That probably he will go to jail once he finished in June unless some issues -- -- nowhere. Between now and then we don't know about. And he'll be sentenced to prison. I'm the type decisions were talking about all of I heard analysts played twenty years -- think he'd do it that much in my opinion because your chin. But he'd probably go to a medium security prison -- he'd actually be in prison. He's not going to be busting rocks are doing Ford library thing like that but he's also not going to be playing golf for kids. I mean he will actually be in prison while his appeal extended. Okay. So. If he's gonna go to jail following the June 11 sentencing most probably I guess -- -- them and does blogging you know gate we talked about it that it drops them big time and then may be the judge would say no. That there's some talk about this possibility of a plan where. He would go to jail for brief amount of time and then now when. His friend Barack Obama gets ready to exit office one on the last day when they leave they give out these pardons and that he would be one of those and they're virtually spend just may be years in jail if he was ordered to remain out doing the appeals process. Likelihood of that happening is that a real threat because people just some of whom are believed -- -- guys actually going to prison for along. Yeah and and Annan and that's ridiculous. If you need -- and mayor Nagin and presidency. Hasn't been Barack Obama it was George Bush George Bush came down here like five times since. Presumably. Contributed. To -- is campaigns. 2006. When he got reelected. Policy Barack Obama. Getting close. To the mayor Nagin or pardon him in my opinion AppleTV ever accurately. I'm also heard that two -- they would they would not exactly the best friend. Yeah but you know after the Bill Clinton pardon of that. -- whatever his name was. Does this switch -- and after they got all that negative publicity out of -- see the president pardon and in these high profile person. For the next several years could he just got decimated because of that. That certainly wouldn't be Barack Obama community is if Nagin was friendly with any president I think it was George Bush Washington. And for assaulting him and Barack Obama had any relationship whatsoever. Tim -- last question now what about his family well who do you think that the deal was offered that will leave you famine alone obviously that charge -- believe it was number. Seven when the jury basically several of anybody was guilty taken -- a bonus it was a two sons in that Nagin. So is there a possibility at all that the government would go after them was that just something that's. Then go to my position two and then that was serious I mean. Sometimes you. You know you -- occupied channel and then Georgia will definitely include concerns -- that. Creates more sympathy to that your unit and they made a conscious decision not to do that for that reason. But quite frankly the I mean. To -- -- -- -- why weren't the -- involved in the trial why did they testify. Why did Robert Jenkins called them as witnesses to testify. Home -- but by the fact that it's over now -- models see them going after. Toll that was last question but I do have one more putting Ray Nagin on the stand. Would Tim mentioned on them do you think that was the only chance he had given what is his presentation looked. Okay and this that this number 11 of all. There's three decisions that they'd be a professional standards that you cannot make for a decline inclined harassment when this. What would plead guilty not guilty one is whether or not have a -- portrait surgery and the third is whether or not testified that seats solely left up. To decline. You can make recommendations. You can talk to him but ultimately it is totally -- decision. In this case in my opinion and again being. He's been described as narcissistic I don't know but it. It appears that that's possible explanation for his. Psychology. It appears that there was no way he was not and take stands so what Robert Jenkins it was a command and taken and once they got to that point they had no weapon to Brazil and I mean for God's sakes it's like you said down they can present India that we taxes. That it could present its that they really had nothing else to do so in my opinion but they've got to that going. That was their only -- Just a personal denial doesn't you have -- what they should accept and and what they probably did not do. He is speed and hours and hours and Al holders. Rehearsing. His testimony preparing him to cross examination. Do a mock cross examination. Have been people read about you -- wouldn't looks like having him on videotape watching himself. I bet he Indian union he would act that he just did the same thing to do with the chocolate city speech. We just clip that we got a beard didn't know exactly what is gonna say when he stood up there just said. Well first thing that came his -- and to me that was the biggest mistake he maybe he wasn't prepared enough for cross examine it. And I think we saw the real ray Ray Nagin and no acting. Tim thanks for you time appreciated so much in no -- get chat with you again. Tim mentioned -- legal analyst coming back your phone calls and your text messages. On this topic in the don't forget also we've got coming up shortly our code word dark cash contest 1000 dollar Demetrin Veal cash contests coming up. -- -- And welcome back into the think -- Friday edition I'm -- did you gain from gone Robinette if you care to talk about topics we invite your telephone calls to 60. 187 and that's in the final four area if you -- outside of Mars area code Bible for calls -- -- 3866. 889087. New -- few candidate techsters do that and 87870. Please text responsibly denied text and drop and got a lot of uncommon in -- start off with. -- here's one that says with regard to. Make in case a case of selective prosecution because of chocolate city speech. Feds could basically get any politician they wanted. EG one or prosecution. Want to think that because he says -- can make this attack the city they went in the prosecution without any other clause. You need to read it trial transcripts. Is another one that says taken a shot an analyst Tim match with friends like -- second guessing legal analyst. Who needs enemy uses the word incompetent freely hindsight is always 20/20. -- job if he's going to be legal analyst. He's not -- in the making any friends in -- given his opinion which is what we ask him to do. Is -- and anyone who knows Berry again no she's a bleeding heart liberal. Without sufficient evidence she would have overturned jury. Thus a reason for -- in the entire jury which wasn't necessary in open court you know must not know ginger. Acton goes on news and I've begun is out -- when taken -- out of me. His friend Barack Obama this is a racist -- statement made referring to both being black. Horrible even below you do on certainly on the coming to WW. Well 1798. Amusing news phone number instead of you name -- input and on and number one. What do bottom both Meehan Democrat. Do you read into that it's because they're both black. Take -- racist card in and -- because it it doesn't fly. I 2601878668890870. Is another when I'm ready wanted to talk with city is about to get. Quite sure what you mean about it these attacks come in and remember eczema hallmark come. All right bring your poll asking you -- weigh in on one of the topics will be -- next hour and that is the one about the decision of saint Tammany parish. To forgo an inspector general position good idea bad idea and Sandra -- the president League of Women Voters with a -- Gave -- some pretty detailed explanation of what went on what choices were available what was made and why. In it didn't change. The way this poll results on -- off 82% of respondents still think it is a bad idea for saint Tammany passionate to create an inspector general office. 18% saying it's a good idea. And parish president at Bristol will be joining us next now and talk about that topic because it's one that we talked with our extensively remodeled last. Several months she was heavily in favor of mostly she's still that way. And also about Peter gal in the sentencing and asking you do you think he got off lightly on that. Two years in jail. And a 193000. Dollars in -- said he had to -- his house to pay the that would deal with all the money stole. Miles talked about that plus those of you -- -- texting and asking the cause when we just heard from called new show is reopened southbound. Traffic traveling both ways will be right back. With the rest of the think tank on the big -- seven need to. And also don't forget we got the thousand dollar cash contest we have another wall and win the next one could be.