Mike -- joins us right now senior fellow with the Cato Institute. They've got a particular emphasis on health health care social security and social security policy and I should also tell you. That we invited. Jordan did mean on some food stamp proponents and they denied it back to some like good morning -- on what. -- taken its time in my right in that 2% of the federal budget when it comes a food stamps or three. All what would stay at the about. By itself that the buyout 80s90s. Billion dollars a year. In total federal spending and a map. So. It's -- had to do the math on that. -- I'm tell me about well will we get the point lo -- so what's a whole federal budget. It's about three point seven -- Those that this about it -- fortunately we executed in line. That talked about the big budget items then the federal budget Medicare Social Security Medicaid it's not that boot him. And I always wonder why a it elicit such an emotional response and and you know it doesn't I don't know if that's because this is something. People actually see when they're at the grocery store or perceived to see what you think it is. Well it -- It it considered. Formal well there it is very obvious for welfare because. You -- look at you don't know where they're getting from understanding yet but food -- the only Hispanic odd lot of people -- about. You get to the very clearly. That and people do tend to make a judgment. On the people use it or what the buy and install. Tell me about this. What is going on the yet -- state of drawing. Heat need to put it called in Washington. And it's essentially what you're calculating the imam who gave an individual did it. The ball extra extra food stamps that you will. If they've -- the but it does from the federal YE program that the heating oil. That that program the utility -- that the -- you get any money from that program. You get extra food stamps. So what and number fifteen states that were doing in the past it they were giving people one dollars in heating oil -- And thereby qualifying and for the -- and food stamps. Which historically you can -- poll. Congress just went about trying to close that loophole made out that that state to give you at least forty dollars in heating oil -- before you qualified for the ball as excellence out of a fraudulent ones only got to get a fraudulent when he isn't it yeah exactly and other pre tax charge that this -- about -- today we know or I -- It turns out the -- that OK we can look up the other ninety dollars. You know I don't I don't. Mean says snicker award to snort when you said that but it's just I mean as a government fix and it so instead of instead of one dollar fraudulent heating money we're gonna give its money. And -- makes you eligible for more food stamps others leading money comes from the federal government or does it come from. The states the heating months. -- -- -- Actual federal money but it funneled through the state straight into the state that terminology we -- these pot federal state partnership. So the government fixes rather than did then have one dollar given again. Fraudulently give them twenty and then that way you can get more food stamps. Apparently that did I mean it's not that the vote fraudulently but it. It -- -- begin at any given time to move would be would back. Yet you get him heating money that. Just in order to. Get more food stamps it would seem the border on fraud to me. -- did stretching the eligibility definition. Let's put it that way we did a certain pool money. It -- what they're doing it basically some people really -- but it took immediate laugh. So that they could split it up or more people in the region has -- -- column more people not to help more people. But the leverage more federal -- So what does this say about the whole system the whole. -- concept of he didn't and the federal government given money to the states. To administer but yet. If the stated that manipulates it. One certain waiting and even more money from the federal government. That's right and we -- and that it -- Medicaid as well another program in which the the state frequently. Leveraged money 11 that he -- is to give -- Medicaid money to a hospital. Then raise the taxes are not hospitals they take it act but when they do it in from the federal government does not match to get more money for the federal government. Even volatile watch it and. Now maybe speaking a wash and may have been watching too much break in bed but it seems like money laundering -- me. Are out what you would be called waited again on anything you wanna -- Michael relate to go. It definitely stem from the problem that it funding comes from one source and accountability is with another source. It didn't open invitation to this sort of. So -- -- take sizzle thing I mean at the is -- like you know again going back to breaking bad sorry but shrinkage is that where. In noses so many people are gonna abuse and and you got to factor that into it to make sure that people. That really need -- help get it ignored do you change the rules you fixes. Well widget that he would keep that perspective that the the small amount of money that -- Look the problem is that you can't federal money then going down the state with accountability at the state level on the money that the federal level. If that statement on the program the state should be responsible for raising the revenue that paid for these programs but. That taxpayers in this state that hold their politicians accountable. Right now just free money will develop -- money. A -- at a table that eventually like buying in on a credit card thank you Mike appreciate your time certain.